Szerintetek igazuk van a nyugati történészeknek abban, hogy az ortodox országok fél-ázsiai azaz eurázsiai civilizációt alkotnak?

De tegyük csak be ide is a 16 pontot:

The PRICE of the isolation in the cultural, technological, infrastructural, economic and societal and legal development:

MEMENTO:

Western things which were not existed in Orthodox world:

1. Local SELF GOVERNMENT status of big royal/imperial cities,

which are the direct ancestors (the continuity) of modern local self governmental systems. Do not confuse the local self governments with the so-called city states. Sovereign city states were the earliest form of states in Human history ( For example: Sumerian city states), and that legal concept has nothing common with the self-governments/local governments of cities within a country or within an Empire.

2. POLITICAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL development:

Medieval appearance of parliaments (The parliament is a legislative body(!), DO NOT CONFUSE with the “councils of monarchs” which existed since the very beginnings of human history), the estates of the realm, the clergy, the nobility, and the commoners,

In the Orthodox world the old traditional oriental despotism ruled and governed everything, there were not much structural development because the society was very rigid, neither parliementism developed, neither self-government systems existed for cities.

3. ECONOMY

The medieval appearance of banking systems and social effects and status of urban bourgeoisie, the absolute dominance of money-economy (when the vast majority of trade based on money and the taxes customs duties were collected in money) from the 12th -13th century, instead of the former primitive bartel-based commerce (barter dominated the economies Orthodox world until the 17-18th centuries.)

4. HIGHER EDUCATION:

The medieval appearance of universities and the medieval appearance of SECULAR intellectuals.

5. CULTURE:

Knights, the knight-culture, chivalric code, (and the technological effects of crusades from the Holy Land,)

Music and literature: courtly love, troubadours, Gregorian chant, Ars nova, Organum, Motet, Madrigal, Canon and Ballata, Liturgical drama, Novellas,

medieval western THEATER: Mystery or cycle plays, morality and passion plays, which developed into the renaissance theater, the direct ancestor of modern theaters.

Philosophy: Scholasticism and humanist philosophy,

6. The medieval usage of Latin alphabet and medieval spread of movable type printing,

7. TECHNOLOGY:

The guild system is an association of artisans or merchants, which organized the training education, and directed master's exam system for artisians. Due to the compulsory foreign studies of the artisian master's candidates, the guilds played key role in the fast spread of technologies and industrial knowledge in the medieval Western World.

8. The defence systems & fortifications:

The spread of stone/brick castle defense -systems, the town-walls of western cities from the 11th century. (In the Orthodox world, only some capital cities had such a walls . The countries of the Balkan region and the territory of Russian states fell under Ottoman/Mongolian rule very rapidly - with a single decisive open-field battle - due to the lack of the networks of stone/brick castles and fortresses in these countries. The only exception was the Greek inhabited Byzantine territories which were well fortified.)

9. FINE ARTS and ARCHITECTURE:

Western architecture, sculpture paintings and fine-arts:

the Romanesque style,

the Gothic style,

the Renaissance style.

The Orthodox church buildings and „palaces(?)” were very little, they had primitive structure and poor decorations, they have thick walls with small windows which make their interior dark, their style were influenced by oriental non-European arabic, persian and Syrian influenced Byzantine ornamentics.

10.The renaissance & humanism , did not influenced/affected the Orthodox (Eastern European) countries.

11. The reformation and the enlightenment also did not influenced/affected the Orthodox (Eastern European) countries.

12. Industrialization:

Before 1870, the industrialization that had developed in Western and Central Europe and the United States did not extend in any significant way to the rest of the world. In Eastern Orthodox Europe, the industrialization lagged far behind, and started only in the 20th century, mostly during the communist era.

13. Urbanization:

Medieval and Early modern era urbanization did not have signifficant effect in Orthodox countries. The real urbanization boom started in Orthodox countries only in the mid 20th century. Most of them experienced real urbanization with the cheap socialist ferro-concrete block-of-flat building programs in post ww2 period.

14. The literacy ratio was so shocking low in Orthodox countries, that even before the WW1, the overwhelming majority of Orthodox population of Europe still could not read and write(!).

15. INFRASTRUCTURE and Economy: The Orthodox infrastructural and economic development was also very very slow, and many determinant factors of modern civilization - as we called them as civilized way of life - (railways, the electrification of cities, drain & sewer systems, water pipe systems, spread of tap water and bathrooms, telecommuncations etc... spread many-many decades (60-80 years) later.

16. Low contribution in science and technology:

It is no wonder that their contribution in science technology and innovations are completely negligible in Human history by the WESTERN standards, which is became clearly visible in the number of international math prizes, and international scientific prizes (like Nobel awards).

"Te mindenkinek elküldöd a linkjeidet privátban is? Teljesen fölösleges, ettöl nem lesz hihetöbb a tévedés!"

Ez a kedvencem: csak azért szimplán valami nem tetszik neki (poltitikai okokból) akkor automatikusan tévedésnek nevezi bármiféle ellenbizonyítás nélkül.

"Te mindenkinek elküldöd a linkjeidet privátban is? Teljesen fölösleges, ettöl nem lesz hihetöbb a tévedés!"

Na ez az IQ negatívusz hozzászólás a kedvencem: Valami nem tetszik neki (politikai okokból) akkor tévedésnek nevezi bizonyítás nélkül.

Ilyenkor merül fel az emberben hogy hány éves lehet az illető...

"Akkor van tévedésnek nevezve valami, ha egyesek csak erőltetik bármiféle bizonyíték nélkül. Lásd példának a te esetedet!"

Tehát minden erőltetett ami nem egyezik a te "tudományos " 12 éves magánvéleményeddel?

Olvashatnál könyveket az ortodox eurázsiai civilizációról:

[link]

Ez a kedvencem: [link]

It is well known that in 1919 Rumania was reluctant for a long time to accept obligation for vested rights of the minorities to be included in the peace treaty. This is odd because it is typical of a Balkan state, of a Balkan nation that it makes no difference what they sign on any treaty, they act as they please as soon as they are in possession. This made Hungarians considerably uneasy, because they are well aware of the morality of the Balkans and of the practice of maltreating minorities and foreigners.

There is a well known historical reason for this. Byzantium was always in close contact with the absolutism of the Eastern peoples, the ideas of despotism derived from there.

In Byzantium they could never separate religion from Imperial politics. The religion began under the patronage of the emperor, interwoven with the empire, with the realm, with the political power. The Orthodox Church's servility derives from here. This situation has not changed during the last one and a half thousand years, it produced the state-church in all Orthodox countries, executing the power of government administration and supervision, almost as an organ of police. In such a political system, the clergy cannot progress and remains on a low level, the state does not develop either, life becomes rigid. This is the cause of the amazing primitiveness one notices when crossing the border of Orthodoxia.

In Balkan fashion, lies are considered virtue and to cheat someone is a glory. It would be a mistake to believe that these acts would cause some sort of remorse.

The Byzantines wanted to dominate the world. They elevated this concept to the rank of messianism in the Balkans and later in Russia, where the Greek Orthodox faith was gaining ground. Ever since, in the ethos of Orthodoxia, the East is the incarnation of morality, perfection, truth, it is itself the light, as opposed to the West, which is the nest of sin and decay. The West has to be conquered. In the New Testament the chosen people are the Byzantines whose duty it is to guard the Ortho-dox faith and to prepare the redemption of humanity.

Professor Hans Kohn writes in his book Pan-Slavism (New York: Vintage Books 1960): "Khomyakov (1804--60) a leading Slavophile thinker was convinced by the events of 1848 that hope resided only in Orthodox Slavdom. He predicted in 1848 the end of Austria and of the last Charlemagne's Empire, and the disappearance of papal power 'in the archives of history, followed by Protestantism and by Catholicism... Now it is the turn of Orthodoxy, the turn of the Slav races to enter the stage of the world...'."

In the East, religious ceremonies are held in each country's language. Today this sounds quite natural, but during the Middle Ages when the Church (of Rome) had a definite role in uniting and reconciling people, the Latin liturgy played a great part in making it possible for the Church to became universal and international, and without doubt, this lead to the develop-ment of European spirituality. In the Balkans the Greek-language Church was established and with its assistance the Gothic- the Armenian-, the Syrian-, the Coptic-, and the Slavic national Churches arose. However the uniting strength and authority over individual nations and churches was missing from this system.

The Orthodoxy in every country remained on the level of its surroundings due to its rigid isolation. Basically it cultiva-ted bold nationalism, however in the early stages more accent was placed on religion than on language. This is well manifes-ted in the historic Serb--Croat hostility, which also serves as a good example of the type of thousand year-long religious ground-conditioning which cannot dissolve even with the decline of the importance of religion.

The frontier of Western culture has stood for one thousand years alongside the southern and eastern borders of pre-Tria-non Hungary. The Orthodox powers regarded Hungary as the main obstacle in their desire to introduce Orthodoxy into Europe. Every such effort has been halted at the gates of Hungary. This has been long forgotten in the West, and the greatest problem is that it is not felt in Europe that in the appearance of 19th century nationalism Orthodoxy in fact gained new momentum by the Panslav Movement.

"Panslavism in the first half of the nineteenth century was a movement of the Western Slavs born out of their cultural awakening and their political weakness. In the second half of the century it became a predominantly Russian movement, rooted in a feeling of spiritual and material grandeur and in a consciousness of historical destiny." (Hans Kohn).

The revolutionary nature of Slavophilism was pointed out by Prince Ivan Sergeyevich Gagarin (1814--82). In his pam-phlet La Russie sera-t-elle catholique? (Paris 1856) he wrote: "In their foreign policy, they wished to fuse all Orthodox Christians of whatever nationality, and all Slavs of whatever religion, in a great political unity, in a great Slav and Orthodox empire..." (Hans Kohn -- Pan-Slavism).

As a result of the Trianon Peace Treaty the Orthodox East (or by the Russian term the Pravoslavs -- Real-Slavs) broke into the Carpathian Basin, actually into the Occident -- ful-filling the long dream of the Orient -- after many hundred years of trying.

In the middle of the Twentieth Century, led by Bolshevik Russia, Slav nationalism conquered Central Europe, but that was all it has achieved: it could not give more than what is its essence: hardly anything more than Byzantinism manifested as Bolshevism. The Slav "salvation of Europe" was foredoomed to failure, it compromised even the Panslav idea of unification of all Slavs. From the "Great Slav Orthodox Union" Yugoslavia deserted first, then Rumania and at the end of 1989 the Soviet Union itself collapsed, or more correctly, the Russian Empire fell apart.

The USSR did not deliver the glory of the Slavs, neither of Orthodoxy, nor that of the Russians. They lost everything they had gained with US help. The Slovaks are fed up with the Slav brotherhood of the Czechs. The Ukrainians do not appreciate the brotherhood of the Russians. The Serbs cast off the Catholic Croats ending the South-Slav Union (but certainly wanting to keep Croat and Hungarian territories).

Almost everything that was done against the order of nature, now returns to normal in the Eastern part of Europe except the division of the Carpathian Basin by the Peace Treaty of Trianon.