Miért ennyire fontos egyeseknek Ukrajna?
"Azért aki egy idegen ország területi szuverenitását nem tartja tiszteletben, szuverén országok területét kebelezi be és ott katonákat állomásoztat az szenvedjen is az embargó miatt. Putyin saját magának köszönheti az egészet..."
De pont ez a lényeg, hogy az embargótól Európa jobban szív, mint Oroszország...amúgy az USA hány helyen állomásoztat katonát? Vagy ez nem számít?
"Szerinted szó nélkül kellene hagyni, hogy az oroszok elkezdenek területeket elcsatolni a szomszédaiktól?"
Te szó nélkül hagyod, hogy az USA megszáll idegen országokat? Az nem számít?
"Ha Oroszország kisajátít területeket, akkor szerinted tovább nem tenné? De. Te hinnél Putyinnak hogy azt mondja hogy "ó kedves magyarok, én titeket nem akarlak, majd megállok a határnál"
Igen, mert NATO-tagok vagyunk.
Talán Kievben nem náci szimbólumokkal kellett volna vonulgatni, meg nem a nemzetiségi nyelvek elkaszálásával kellett volna indítani a "forradalom" után.
A Krím-félsziget szavazott, a főügyész kiscsaj rálépett az ukránok tökére, a krími lakosság szeretettel fogadta az oroszokat. A donecki és luhanszki köztársaságok már felajánlották a csatlakozási kérelmet Oroszországnak, de Putyin mondott rá nemet.
Ha minden országot szankcionálnának, ami nem tart tiszteletben egy másik országot, akkor pillanatok alatt megugrana a szankciók száma.
"Te szó nélkül hagyod, hogy az USA megszáll idegen országokat? Az nem számít?"
USA milyen országot szállt meg az elmúlt időszakban azon célból hogy elfoglalja és magáévá tegye?
Amúgy az USA által állomásoztatott katonák hozzák a pénzt, mikor Taszáron voltak akkor dollár volt még a pécsi legkisebb kocsma pénztárgépébe is! Járj utána mennyire rosszul érintette azt a részt hogy elmentek!
És EU nem szív akkorát, Oroszország nagyobbat! Nézd meg hogy emelkedik ott az ára mindennek, mennyire nem megy a gazdaságuk!
"USA milyen országot szállt meg az elmúlt időszakban azon célból hogy elfoglalja és magáévá tegye?
Amúgy az USA által állomásoztatott katonák hozzák a pénzt, mikor Taszáron voltak akkor dollár volt még a pécsi legkisebb kocsma pénztárgépébe is! Járj utána mennyire rosszul érintette azt a részt hogy elmentek!"
Értem, tehát nem hogy felháborító, hogy az USA IS csak úgy bevonul más országokba, hanem még üdvözölendő is. Ehhez pofa kell, de a kétszínűség jellemző az ilyen emberekre.
"És EU nem szív akkorát, Oroszország nagyobbat! Nézd meg hogy emelkedik ott az ára mindennek, mennyire nem megy a gazdaságuk!"
Ennek azért még nézzél utána, mondjuk Olaszországot tudnám ajánlani:
vagy akár Finnország:
Hitler’s dreams came true: unrepentant Galichina conquered Ukraine
At first here is a piece of statistics. During World War II there were killed in Ukraine 5,300,000 citizens of URSS; 2,300,000 were forcibly moved to Germany. At the same time the faithful and consistent supporters of Nazis – Ukrainian nationalists killed 850,000 Jews; 220,000 Poles, more than 400,000 Soviet captives and 500,000 Ukrainian civilians. In total – more than 2,000,000 victims. So, it means that half of military victims in Ukraine is the result of bloody hands of Galician nationalists. Apart from Ukraine they carried out their activity in modern Poland and Belarus (the village of Khatyn, familiar to any Soviet man, was burned down by Galicians, not by Germans).
No other Hitler’s ally in the Western or Eastern front has such a wide range of crime. Fighting for Nazi Germany armies of Italy, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, even taken in aggregate, didn’t annihilate so many people. In comparison to Ukrainian nationalists these allies were fighting reluctantly. You can’t of course suspect them of humanity, but genocide of civilians was not their primary task (but as secondary it surely was – especially annihilation of 200,000 Jews in Transnistria by Roman army). The occupation of towns by Italian army was a sort of favour comparing to direct German occupation; Bulgarians generally dodged military actions in the East; Hungarian royal army was almost completely destroyed around Voronezh (that was the reason this city wasn’t awarded the rank of Hero-city – the Soviets didn’t want to remind social Hungary about the biggest defeat of Hungarians since capturing of Buda by Osmans).
Thus the host of snakes of Ukrainian nationalists of military time (Ukrainian rebel army, division of SS ‘Galichina’, ‘Nachtigal’, etc) in general ‘achievements’ should be ranked equally with other official Hitler’s allies (and they should be ranked the first).
And if before the war the Organization of Ukrainian nationalists, which had carried out terror activity against Polish officials, could be viewed in a very strained interpretation as a fighter for independence of Ukraine, so massive and unprecedented in brutality genocide in military time directly makes these organizations criminal. Moreover – and this is the most terrible fact- that the scale of involvement of Galician people into Hitler’s crimes against peace and humanity in general lets us attribute Galicians as a sub-ethnicity of Ukrainian nation to allies of Hitler’s Germany.
All allies of Hitler got punished after the war; they were unanimously denounced by world community and became tabooed. States and people cooperating with Hitler suffered some losses, including territory, financial and politic in favour of their victims.
And only Galicia and Western Ukrainians got away with fair punishment. Of course, Stalin and NKVD handled armed Banderians without mittens – thousands of ghouls were sentenced (there could innocent people, or slightly guilty, but executions were few, authorities used to exile them to Siberia, what is easier than Babyi Yar or a burning barn, what had been done by Banderians themselves). But in general Galicians as a sub-ethnicity and collective ally of Hitler didn’t get any punishment at all: they were not deported. Not deprived of their native land, didn’t suffer any territorial loss – quite on the contrary: it was Stalin who fixed the borders of Ukraine the way Ukrainian nationalists had only dreamt of, joining to Ukraine Karpathian Rus from Czechoslovakia with Rusins inhabiting there, who didn’t identify themselves with Ukrainians and Galicians in particular.
Why did it happen? Why the most consistent and merciless ally of Nazism in Europe – Ukrainian (Galician) nationalism didn’t get the correct evaluation and corresponding punishment? The thing is the same as with Voronezh. The acknowledgement of Galicia and its people as Hitler’s allies could evolve in many unpleasant consequences (at least Lvov had to be returned to victims of genocide – Poles, as they were a half of city population at that time) and became indelible spot on Ukraine and Ukrainian people, whose other parts heroically had fought with Nazism and had suffered so much that UN after the war decided to include Ukraine and Belarus into its separate members apart from Soviet Union, which is a completely unique case.
And, if according to Solzhenitsyn, Germany after the war was filled with the shadow of repentance (the same is true concerning other countries –allies of Hitler), the Western Ukraine didn’t have anything of the kind – the crime of ‘Westerners’ was left latent and unrepentant. Moreover, with degrading of Soviet structure Banderians began to be considered as national heroes, and Galichina – as the pattern of ideal Ukraine. As a result their idea forerunners – modern Ukrainian nationalists performed a real fascist coup in the country which had contributed so much in the defeat of this fascism as well.
And if modern right parties of the Eastern Europe deliberately keep distance from fascists seeking for their ancestors in earlier more rational movements, in Ukraine there is a different situation – here rule score not just the followers of Nazi ideology, but Nazis themselves, i.e. organizations which carried out unprecedented genocide of Poles, Jews, Russians and Ukrainians. It means that unacceptable and tabooed have become not only legal in Ukraine, it has become the main thing. Without losing time modern nationalists have taken out fascist flags, repeated Khatyn in Odessa and inflicted ‘Volynian massace’ in Donbass.
No one knows what the consequences of fascism in Ukraine will be. But here is the question – what is the reaction of Western neighbours of Ukraine to events in the country/ first of all Poland and its political elite? And here we come across another political paradox – the most consistent and principal opponents of revival of Ukrainian Nazism are Polish right forces. In general Polish society is loyal to the restoration of Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists.
It is more than strange because annihilation of Poles was the main task of Banderians in military years. Even on June’ 30 bursting into Lvov at the dawn with forward German troops battalion ‘Nachtigal’ headed by now Hero of Ukraine Roman Shuhevich immediately killed more than 3,000 people whose mother tongue was Polish. For the first week in Lvov this battalion slaughtered 7,000 Poles, including old men, women and children.
Bukovivnian camp created by the agent of Abver Voinovsky on September’ 28 of 1941 started to carry out massive killings of 350,000 civilians, including 50,000 children in Babyi Yar. Out of 1500 executioners there were less than 300 Germans, the rest were Ukrainian nationalists.
Performed by Banderians in 1943 ‘Volynian massacre’ was actually a full scale war against Poles, which can be compared to Holocaust, but in brutality and intensity preceding it: if in ghetto and concentration camps there was a slight chance to survive, then in Volyn Poles were in position of Jews in Babyi Yar: they were killed totally and immediately. There are dozens of such Khatyns in Volyn and Galicia.
During Soviet times at the place of extermination of one of these Polish villages – Guta Penyatskaya there had been erected a monument, which was silently dismantled in independent Ukraine in 1990. At the beginning of XXI century the commission over investigation of crimes against Polish citizens started to investigate events connected with physical extermination of civilians of Guta Penyatskaya. The result was that there were no Germans in the village – Poles were slaughtered by 4th regiment of voluntary division of SS ‘Galichina’ with participation of Ukrainian rebel army and Ukrainian police.
In 2005 with participation of presidents of Poland and Ukraine there was opened a memorial to victims. After its opening the MP-Nazi Oleg Tyagnibok claimed that the council be announced as person non-grate “for illegal opening of the monument” and “humiliation of national dignity of Ukrainians”.
Instead of monuments to victims now in Ukraine there are monuments to executioners. So it happened in Yanovaya Valley, where on April’ 22-23 of 1943 there was started the first massive extermination of Polish civilians by troops of 1st Group of URA headed by I. Litvinchuk. In 1998 the supporters of ‘Ruh’ erected a monument there “In commemoration of the first operation of Group 1 of URA”/
If the situation remains the same, if neighbor countries and nations don’t radically change the relation to current fascist coup in Ukraine, then Banderians, who have come out from their dens and taken power will proclaim Babyi Yar and Khatyn the places of military glory and valor of Ukrainian Rebel Army.
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